|
Post by Wolvie on May 17, 2006 1:48:43 GMT
So, out of habit, I recently checked some of the boards on AA (I was doing good for a week or two), and I noticed that Infidian came in finally and yet there has been no discussions about it over here. Maybe it hasn't been in that long, or maybe you guys are of the same mind as me in that after reading about it and taking in some of the themes (shitters and peaceful weapon-hating hippies) you had no impulse to go check it out. That and taking a boat to some far remote place is never fun.
So come on, I wanna read some thoughts on the place, good or bad...
|
|
|
Post by Notanalt on May 17, 2006 2:44:50 GMT
I'm not at liberty to discuss much of what's there, but the great thing about Infidian is the potential is has offered up. The map has now expanded in a huge way and areas can start growing into it. Already there has been some good action in this area because of the fact that it has been installed. To those hoping that it will prove a giant continent of level 25 npcs and kill routes you'll be out of luck. For now
|
|
|
Post by Wolvie on May 17, 2006 4:12:39 GMT
*laugh* I just noticed the topic started by Lunger in the Shitters category. You guys have been too busy talking bout gumbo and filling out sentences that it scrolled out of the recent 20. Probably could be merged together...
|
|
|
Post by Gromlakh on May 17, 2006 4:47:30 GMT
Infidian right now? CRAP.
Infidian in the future? Has possibilities, depending on how it's developed.
I've explored a bit over there. There's a few decent (L16-ish) NPC's roaming about, and a tribal village that has a few NPC's of about the same level. One decent 2 handed axe that I've found, and some things of minor interest in the fort up north. Beyond that, nothing much of interest, unless you like playing Duck Duck Goose.
No, seriously, there's a place in the fort to play Duck Duck Goose.
No, really, I'm not kidding. DUCK DUCK GOOSE.
Gemynd is (allegedly) supposed to be another Tantallon, with smokes/meds/sellers/etc., but it's not in yet (I think it's awaiting approval...). My understanding is that they just wanted to get the continent in ASAP because there were interesting areas being coded for it, but people were losing interest in them and not coding because they'd become convinced Infidian would never get put into the game. I'm fine with that.
I just hope that by "interesting areas" they mean "areas that bear no resemblance to the garbage that's over there right now." Examples of the "fun" that awaits explorers of Infidian:
1. The aforementioned Duck Duck Goose game.
2. Some farmland with low-level NPC's where you can play a game with a kid. Yup, that's it. You play a game. And allegedly some shitter ability/emote/sfeels/etc.
3. In the tribal village, you can rent a veggie patch and grow your own heals. This sounds interesting, as long as you don't care that it will take about an hour, you have to keep returning to the village repeatedly to water your plants (take bucket, run to well, tie bucket to rope, lower bucket, raise bucket, untie bucket, return to garden, water plants; X 3, yippee fuck) and the heals pretty much suck (5 tomatoes, 10/10 each, all 5 get you to very stuffed).
4. There's some town with a bunch of level 1 looking NPC's having a fair (or "fayre", which is poweridler speak for "gay area with nothing to do) where somebody's rigged a "fayre" entry or something. Wow.
5. There's a place up north where the rooms are all spammed out with flowers. Like 30 "avalanche lilies" per room, each an individual item. If you participated in Anarchy, imagine walking through the streets of Tantallon during that, and you'll have some idea of how "fun" this area is. Seriously, to whoever coded that, you could've made the point with like 3 lilies per room. I'm just saying.
6. At the fort, you can load a catapult (take boulder, load catapult, set catapult, fire catapult, IIRC), fire it at the fort, and then get tons of "awesome" messages about your repeated failure to even come close to hitting it and nearly killing yourself in the process.
7. There's a dungeon in the far east where you can explore and become diseased, which turns into blood poisoning, which quickly makes you extremely poisoned on a continent with no Shanni equivalent, no poison cures that have been found yet, and takes about fifteen minutes to get back from (since the NPC with the boat doesn't stay there, and no one to my knowledge has any idea how to summon him from Infidian except to beg someone to hire him for you in Tantallon). I don't know which genius coded that one, but all wizzes should look at that as a glaring example of what NOT to do.
But, we're hoping for good things in the future...
|
|
|
Post by tehlung on May 17, 2006 4:56:26 GMT
so in other words....par for the course!
|
|
|
Post by Wolvie on May 17, 2006 19:45:22 GMT
Hard to imagine people losing interest when things aren't being put into the game
|
|
|
Post by Notanalt on May 17, 2006 20:56:53 GMT
You mean aside from Infidian (a giant continent with several areas in it), shop upgrades that help keep equipment in the shops, extended reboots, newbie card helpers, silent glen, elves and the glassblower?
If you mean things not being put into the game other then that then I guess it makes sense.
STuff is being added. People are actually qorking quite hard to improve gameplay. The really difficult areas with large npcs and the like always take longer because of the code and the approval issues involved. Be patient. There are bigger things coming down the pipe then you might think.
|
|
|
Post by Wolvie on May 17, 2006 21:12:21 GMT
Yes indeed, there has been a splurge lately. Which is refreshing. But you have to ask why this stuff couldn't have come in at this rate sooner. Damage has already been done. Whenever I take a gander at the AA site, which admittedly isn't often, I still only see around 35 players. I am happy, even though I can't play any longer, that people who were no longer as motivated as they should be in certain positions, stepped down, allowing newer and fresher people to help give final pushes to this stuff.
But, my little off handed coment did push this away from infidian. Come on people, isn't there one shifter-type here who wants to praise it? Or are those in the know just hoping that there is an equal push somewhere else sometime soon?
|
|
|
Post by tehlung on May 17, 2006 23:03:13 GMT
You mean aside from Infidian (a giant continent with several areas in it), shop upgrades that help keep equipment in the shops, extended reboots, newbie card helpers, silent glen, elves and the glassblower? If you mean things not being put into the game other then that then I guess it makes sense. STuff is being added. People are actually qorking quite hard to improve gameplay. The really difficult areas with large npcs and the like always take longer because of the code and the approval issues involved. Be patient. There are bigger things coming down the pipe then you might think. consider where you are. ass blower, silent glen, newbie cards don't count here. not knockign them, but where do any of them benefit powerplayers
|
|
|
Post by Notanalt on May 18, 2006 5:27:09 GMT
You guys just don't really have a clue the amount of work that has gone into the mud in the past few months. It can be a little disheartening when a project like Infidian, which has had people working hours and hours on end, (and not just one person but many many people), just gets slammed and written off as useless.
It's no wonder people lose interest and go do something else.
|
|
|
Post by musashi on May 18, 2006 11:18:59 GMT
You guys just don't really have a clue the amount of work that has gone into the mud in the past few months. It can be a little disheartening when a project like Infidian, which has had people working hours and hours on end, (and not just one person but many many people), just gets slammed and written off as useless. It's no wonder people lose interest and go do something else. I have a clue... it's not been hours and hours but years and years how long Infidian has been under construction. I'm not sure when the work started but perharps 8 or even 10 years ago. Many were quite sure that it would never end up installed. So that's quite a massive amount of work done! I have seen a lot of wizards quit and go do something else, but only Adinos has mentioned player critique as a *part* of the reason why he left. The most of the coders who have got tired with AA have mentioned the slowness of QC or some other problems in the wizards' realm, not the critical players... ++Musashi
|
|
|
Post by Gromlakh on May 18, 2006 13:52:42 GMT
You guys just don't really have a clue the amount of work that has gone into the mud in the past few months. It can be a little disheartening when a project like Infidian, which has had people working hours and hours on end, (and not just one person but many many people), just gets slammed and written off as useless. It's no wonder people lose interest and go do something else. *sigh* Perhaps next time you could bother actually READING what people wrote first, instead of putting words in people's mouths? Infidian has not been "slammed and written off as useless" by ANYONE here. What were my exact words again? I specifically said that I'm waiting to see how it plays out. Yes, it's massive. Yes, it must've required a lot of work. Yes, there's stuff planned for it. Great, lemme see. I'll comment when I see Gemynd finished and a few more of the areas I have planned. But, since you jumped straight in with both feet to the "WAAAAH! Oh, woe is us, we wizards do something and you have the gall to not like it!!!!!" argument, I'm going to expound a bit more. Have I, and others, criticized Infidian in its current state? Damn straight I have. Because the areas that are over there right now, today, at this very moment, suck donkey balls. There are a few things of minor interest that I've pointed out, but by and large they all suck. There's no compelling reason why the farmland should've been put into the game, or that seabird sanctuary, etc. We criticize them for several reasons. First and foremost, we say areas like ass blower, Gayass House, farmland, etc. suck BECAUSE THEY SUCK. We didn't make them suck. It's not our fault they suck. We did not waive our magic wands, line up the planets, and cause a massive gravitational vortex that obliterated the goodness of those areas. They sucked when they were conceived, they sucked when they were written, and they sucked when they were approved and added to the game. We're just pointing it out. Second, some wizard somewhere had to come up with the area. Picking a random example, we'll take ass blower. I have no idea who came up with the idea. And I don't care. For all I know, it could've been Theryn, Dawg, or Pris that conceived of it. It's not really important. That wizard apparently said to themselves, "OMFG, looking over the map, and listening to the repeated calls of the players, I have now determined what they want. A small, completely useless area in the desert! I'll put one whole NPC there! He'll make bottles! He'll have a lame story! He won't be worth killing! He'll occupy space! WON'T THAT JUST BE AWESOME!!!!!!!!" Apparently, this particular wizard (no matter how good his/her other projects may have been), failed to notice that, in fact, there is ABSOLUTELY NO DEMAND OR DESIRE for such an area. That point somehow eluded the coder. The coder, blissfully unaware of this, plugged on, and the area eventually got into the game. It's entirely possible that the coder may look back upon the area and say, "Alright, now let's move on to my next area. I've already had one raging success with the ass blower, perhaps I should look upon that as a model?" If we stood silent, that coder may well churn out more garbage like that and think it would be popular. The fact is, we want to discourage wizards from writing those areas and wasting their time. We want the coder to know that it was garbage, and also point out areas that are actually good areas (which is done all the time). The idea is that, if the wizard is even remotely intelligent or competant, they might try examining those comments and criticisms and learn what the players actually like and want. Then, for their next area, they can say, "Well, shit, ass blower didn't go over well. Maybe I should aim for something more like [drak/rune/retreat/etc.], since the players seemed to be in nearly orgasmic shock for weeks when those areas went in." I'd also be happy with, "Well, I'm incapable of coding anything better than ass blower, so I'll just stop making areas because I'm obviously wasting my time," if that's the case. Oh, and by the way, stop telling us how many hours went into something. Most of the people here have wizzed at some point, and those who haven't probably are at least familiar enough with things to understand that it involves work. And if your area is good, it'll be obvious that a lot of time and work went into it. But if the end result of all your hard work is [ass blower/farmland/stupid "fayre" town/etc.], and that's all you've got to show for it, guess what? You just wasted your time. Please never do that again.
|
|
|
Post by tehlung on May 18, 2006 16:24:41 GMT
You guys just don't really have a clue the amount of work that has gone into the mud in the past few months. It can be a little disheartening when a project like Infidian, which has had people working hours and hours on end, (and not just one person but many many people), just gets slammed and written off as useless. It's no wonder people lose interest and go do something else. carrots. i'm not trying to flame with this post. it may come across that way, but it isn't intended. just a fyi! the first problem with all these areas we've mentioned is in the wizard docs. in the appr, balance, world, and god knows what else docs, wizards are encouraged to NOT make an area with high levels, uniques, or other fun stuff. they are also encouraged just to get an area in the game to get level 600 when it gets in. no wonder we've had a plethora of 'junk' areas the last 5ish years. the second problem is in area design. this comes about because of the encouragement to just get level 600. there is nothing about "will players like this?", "will players enjoy coming back to my area?". in my opinion, since every area is forced to cater to touchyfeelyguild, then every area should also have something for powerplayers. sure, you wanna have your ass blower area? make the npc level 17 and really good aligned, being so close to drak. or make the npc have a really good set of gloves. SOMETHING to make a true player want to go there. finally, you say the standard wizard line of working hours and hours etc. i've wizzed twice. i know what it takes to wiz, then to come up with a successful winfo, and then to code it. i flat out SUCK at coding anything more than a room desc, so i can only imagine how tough some of the shit is. it really is great that so much time gets put in for a free game. however, all we're asking for is that you(wizards as a whole) make the effort to code something we'll like as well. let aspero/levek/etc style guild go sit in form in the beautiful descriibe all environments. if thats what they want to do, then fine. but don't get upset with us if something is coded and we don't like it. it isn't personal. we aren't bashing the coder. if i don't like the area, then sorry, i don't like it. i'm not gonna lie, say i like it, and therefore encourage more of the same type of areas to come out. do you see what i'm saying? as far as area design goes. i designed one hugely successful area. when i was designing/attemptingcoding it, i was really worried that it wouldn't be accepted by the powerplayers. i kept trying to make it better and better, even asking several powerplayers their opinion of the concept, the npcs, and the gear. this improved it. i sucked at coding, dropped wizardhood, and gave it to a fweet coder. he in turn, asked even more opinions for the eq, and it got even better. thus, you have a wildly successful area. does it fit into aa's storyline? you're damned right. in fact, its in the biggest storyline on the game(humans vs orcs). what aa really needs are mortal powerplayers involved in either the area creation process. of course, thats what the MC was supposed to be, but we were relegated to QCing. rarely were our suggestions listened to as far as area design, other than "ooh, it'd be really cool if i could slide down this bannister in the forest house!". one major exception to this was Pris(may she live forever and code more!). drue and i made several suggestions to her areas to change, and she took most, if not all of them, and it made her area that little bit better. those "little bit betters" and small additions add up. [/ramble]
|
|
|
Post by Frostbite on May 18, 2006 19:22:04 GMT
Lafff Grommy you're my hero.
You guys had better be careful, they might banish you for being subversive :-)
|
|
|
Post by musashi on May 18, 2006 21:31:30 GMT
good post lunger.
Interaction with players is the best thing in the game... it should be the starting point in everything...
that's unfortunately one thing that's been lost in AA - too much queues, too much committees, too much rules like the old classy 1 npc/3 rooms... who does such stuff serve?
++Mush
|
|