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Post by Theryn on May 19, 2006 9:03:00 GMT
too much rules like the old classy 1 npc/3 rooms... Funny you should mention that.
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Post by Lanstro on May 19, 2006 9:26:56 GMT
Gromlakh, a wizard has no obligation to code for you, for me, for Levek or for the next newbie to log into AA. Likewise, you as a player have no obligation to visit a wizard's area, to powerplay in it, to scratch n sniff in it, to idle in it, to use the items in it. ASSUMING the wizard who coded those areas that you did not like even wanted your opinion, then perhaps mailing them privately with a respectfully toned list of possible improvements that could be made to their next area would not be astray. Public grandstanding and bashing the area on a public board without offering any substantial suggestions on how to fix the problem only serves to piss the wizard off and make the author of the area block out the message you are attempting to send.
With that being said, a wizard does not owe the players one line of code. A wizard should code first and foremost for him or herself. A wizard may choose to listen to players and code what a player wants, and that makes said wizard popular. But a wizard has no obligation to listen to what a player wants. Did you lose anything from glass blowers or the areas currently on Infidian coming into the game? No. Did you lose one single experience point or gold coin from the area coming into the game? No. A wizard has every right to keep churning out these small areas which are 'useless' to you, because even if not even one mortal enjoyed it, the wizard got enjoyment out of coding the area. And in a game, all players, including wizards, have every right to enjoy themselves as long as it does not impact upon anyone else.
A wizard does not get paid to code for AA. The time that a wizard donates to the game should be respected.
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Post by Gromlakh on May 19, 2006 12:54:51 GMT
Lanstro:
I appreciate your comments, but I disagree with them (respectfully, I'm not trying to flame you). I wasn't grandstanding with my last post; I meant every last word of it.
I think wizards certainly are obligated to code for us. You can interpret "us" any way you want, but by "us" I'm referring to "players." I keep hearing everyone talking about the declining player base, how all these other muds have so many more players than we do, how everyone wants to attract new players, how Nitro has promised to [retire/promote/donate/sell the soul of his first born child/etc.] if we get to 100 players at a time, etc. Does anyone seriously think we're gonna get there if we have a bunch of wizards coding "first and foremost for him or herself" and churning out areas that are useless to the players "because the wizard got enjoyment out of coding the area?"
If the area's useless, and serves no real purpose or benefit to the game, it IS a loss to the players. It's a loss to the players because that wizard could have better devoted their time to something people might like. Instead, we got something like ass blower, which might get visited once, at which point pretty much everybody in the mud will say, "Jesus, this place is worthless, I'm never coming back here." Luckily, we have wizards like you and Theryn, who actually listen to the players and try to code areas they might like (I'm sure there are others as well, you're just the two immediately springing to mind). Those areas make the existing players happy, and the more quality areas we have the more likely we are to get (and keep) new players.
Several people have offered suggestions on these useless areas before, myself included. The problem, though, is just what you said (although you didn't identify it as a problem): the wizard who coded it ignored player input, ignored comments made on similar areas, ignored player demands, paid no attention to what was needed, and chose to code for him/herself. The result is an area no one wants.
But, I do always try to be helpful, so in the spirit of being a good little orcsie, I'm going to make a new thread. This thread will be about pointers to keep in mind when coding your areas to make it useful to the player base, and I'll throw in a link to it here when I'm done. With any luck, it'll get read, and other people will contribute to it, and maybe the usefullness of areas going into the game will increase.
EDIT: Work calls right now, I'll work on content for the new thread a bit throughout the day, and probably post it later on this afternoon/tonight.
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Post by Lanstro on May 19, 2006 14:44:16 GMT
Wait, so, because a player wizzed, she is suddenly obliged to be a worker for the AA populace?
Did the wizard sign a clause that said 'I acknowledge my duty to code what the mortals want'? no.
Did the wizard agree to give Gaius a promise that she would work towards building the playerbase? no.
When you log in, do you only do things that other mortals want you to do? no.
When you log in, are you obligated to work towards building the playerbase? no.
A wizard is just another player. You think that by wizzing, her coding time becomes AA's property. No. Her time is no more AA's time than your time is.
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Post by Constantine on May 19, 2006 17:32:45 GMT
Lanstro, please. Your idea of wizardhood is fundamentally flawed. The path to wizardhood exists in AA to allow experienced players to contribute to the game for the sake of the players. The coding of an area is not done strictly for personal achievement, as you suggest, and I would question the intentions of anyone who truly felt that way. You said: "A wizard is just another player."Do you really stand by this absurd statement?
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Post by Gromlakh on May 19, 2006 17:37:47 GMT
Lanstro = Dafeon, wizard. And on that note, I should apologize for the tone of my earlier comments. I'm a bit of a sarcastic prick at times. I'm still planning on coming back later to post a new thread, hopefully striking a much more diplomatic tone than the piss and venom spewed in my earlier posts. (thanks piggy)
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Post by Constantine on May 19, 2006 18:31:07 GMT
Lanstro = Dafeon? I highly respect Dafeon as a wiz, so that information surprises me... I hope I am mistaken in my interpretation of those posts. And I know, first hand, that you (Dafeon) solicit information from mortals on your projects, so I am confused why you would take such a stance on the topic..?
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Post by Constantine on May 19, 2006 18:51:46 GMT
So, back to the topic of Infidian. I have spent probably a few hours over on the new continent. I must say, it has enormous potential and adds an exceptionally large and unique landscape with which to work. I especially enjoy the range of wandering NPCs in the different regions of the map. The areas there at the moment are very limited, but I appreciate that the continent was added ahead of the addition of the multitude of areas that will be included down the road. Today, it seems like it would be great for rangers and possibly others, but there's not much for a Paladin to do over there. And on the topic of new areas, let's not forget Andellen's area... it was a very welcome addition.
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Post by The Abyss on May 19, 2006 19:22:23 GMT
Has anyone figured out Dungeon on Infidian? I've gotten poisoned quite a lot, smashed a few gates but havent figured out the tricks to the area yet. There's a hole that I have no idea what to do with.
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Post by Wolvie on May 19, 2006 19:27:44 GMT
It's a glory hole manned by Pillar!!! Oh crap, I ruined the surprise... Sorry GayJay.
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Post by Pillar on May 19, 2006 20:08:14 GMT
[cue music=obnoxious_beats sound=loud style=gay]
That's right, folks! Step right up to the Glory Hole! [insert applause] Do you think you have what it takes? Are you man enough? Then bring it on! [insert cheers_aplenty]
[/cue]
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Post by Lanstro on May 20, 2006 2:48:58 GMT
Just because I choose to listen to what mortals want does not mean any other wizard is obliged to do so.
I do stand by the statement that a wizard is just another player - what's so different about a wizard?
Sure, a wizard who codes solely for himself may be a bit selfish, but he is not doing any damage to anyone else.
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Post by Frostbite on May 20, 2006 5:20:18 GMT
1) The point of becoming a wizard is supposed to be to GIVE BACK TO THE GAME. Here-in lies the problem, people who enjoy the game in a certain way, code for the way that they've grown to enjoy it. Players like those who frequent this board don't like the fact that while they're negotiating the bullshit politics they could be gaining points for their mortals, hence the lack of powerplayers as wizards. And gee - go figure, when a powerplayer (Lunger, via Theryn [who sucks much less than Paldin, by the way]) comes up with an area, it doesn't suck! (and I mean that in the most complementary way possible).
2) You're absolutely right, no wizard is obligated to do anything. But if you're not willing to hear people's opinions on how you spent (wasted) your time as a wizard, you probably shouldn't bother starting. Don't volunteer if you're looking for a pat on the back. That's true on AA as it is in life. Do something for you, not for anyone else. If you're too much of a self-righteous pussy to cope with the fact that not everyone is going to like your (probably shitty) ideas, you're better off idling as a mortal.
Just my $0.02 (discounted to half price lately)
Frosty
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