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Post by Wolvie on Apr 23, 2006 8:50:47 GMT
So I stop checking the boards on AA for a few days because nothing was happening and now I come back and find that finally the adventurer's board has been hopping. Now I'm finally satisfied... And with that, I hope to god Angstrom is reading this because I really need to ask: When did I ever threaten physical harm on someone? I'm just a little confused here. I mean, yea, I got into it pretty good on the boards, but those are just words. Let me just reemphasize the BOARDS bit. I mean, that banishment log makes it sound like we would say to each other, "We don't like Serin today, lets send him tells non-stop and shout how much of a fag he is." And libel? Maybe you are thinking about the rumor, not started by us, of Malire being a chick? Funny thing is that I didn't really believe it for a while, but then my gf logged in and was asking Malire a few questions for me (after the move, when I couldn't log in, but before the banishment) and I swear to god, the log that she was posting back to me looked EXACTLY like two chicks chatting it up. And then there is Bunbun Wow, really miss Adinos huh? Lemme just point out for you that me and Frosty never really argued much with him, not like we did with Paldin. I can't even really remember any prolonged personal conversations with Adinos. I think he just used us as a convenient scapegoat for his departure. You could even tell he had a thing brewing for us back when he posted that survey. I'm gonna point out that the survey response that I sent him (which you can probably find somewhere on here (my views have changed a bit since then)) never made it to his posted results. But he did make carefully sure to include both mine and Arakis' names specifically from a response that details something that happens often in the Scythe by other players and was actually rather infrequently done by us. And heck, even though Angstrom bares some kind of grudge against me when I never really had a bad thing for him, I think we are better off with Angstrom in there. Someone fresh and not tired and worn out like Adinos was (You all enjoying those houses yet? I bet Bleys is ). Ok, now hopefully, I sty away for another few days and come back to another list of posts filled with lies of what me and Frosty supposedly did on the adv board. I joyously plead guilty to being an accomplished whiner though, and maybe an asshole. Afterall, that is what you become when someone else can't hold their own in an argument with you.
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Post by Wolvie on Apr 23, 2006 9:06:20 GMT
And now I finished reading them all and am a bit confused about what took place between Gromlakh (funny posts btw!) and Popeye. Was he saying that Frosty threatened someone specifically or that it was idle banter while drunk at a party?
If anything we learned from those parties, don't stay up real late with Frosty and then start debating politics. I'd include myself in that, but I try not to shout when drunk. Although, at times I fail and jump right in.
And that Huun guy made the best point that could ever be made in this whole argument. When me and Frosty weren't posting on boards about the admin, policies, and areas being put in, we would try to find a party and go kill some shit and have fun while doing it.
Go figure, we actually played the game.
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Post by Gromlakh on Apr 23, 2006 14:10:51 GMT
Quoted from Popeye's mudmail to me:
Like I said on the board, I don't know if Frosty (or you) ever threatened anyone, and quite frankly I don't care. IT'S A FRIGGIN GAME. If you're lame enough that someone (who probably lives halfway across the world from you) threatens to "attack you physically", and you actually BELIEVE IT and get scared, you need serious help.
The fact that Nitro and Angstrom were in any way pimping that as somehow justifying the banishments was just flat out lame.
Now if I can just get those sitebans of Lunger and Machine to go through... ;D
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Post by tehlung on Apr 23, 2006 19:35:17 GMT
Quoted from Popeye's mudmail to me: Like I said on the board, I don't know if Frosty (or you) ever threatened anyone, and quite frankly I don't care. IT'S A FRIGGIN GAME. If you're lame enough that someone (who probably lives halfway across the world from you) threatens to "attack you physically", and you actually BELIEVE IT and get scared, you need serious help. The fact that Nitro and Angstrom were in any way pimping that as somehow justifying the banishments was just flat out lame. Now if I can just get those sitebans of Lunger and Machine to go through... ;D you want me sitebanned? OMG if i ever see you irl i will beat your ass physically. then i'll grab a bat and beat you some more. omg ban me. i've had several people say they'll beat me irl on aa. i send them my address and invite them to come on down. coonasses don't play around.
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Post by Gromlakh on Apr 23, 2006 19:53:48 GMT
Hey, I lived in Louisiana for three years. I know better than to fuck with coonasses.
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Post by Tempest on Apr 23, 2006 20:20:26 GMT
I'm so scared of Loosiana folk (especially that Nawlins breed), I don't even call them coonasses!
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Post by tehlung on Apr 24, 2006 5:22:58 GMT
I'm so scared of Loosiana folk (especially that Nawlins breed), I don't even call them coonasses! i'll fuck you up irl. everyone on the mud too. (omg siteban time)
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Post by Tempest on Apr 24, 2006 6:10:33 GMT
You know where I live, big boy. =) Bring it.
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BunBun
Newbie
Move it Nerd Boy
Posts: 6
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Post by BunBun on Apr 24, 2006 8:20:42 GMT
So I stop checking the boards on AA for a few days because nothing was happening and now I come back and find that finally the adventurer's board has been hopping. Now I'm finally satisfied... And with that, I hope to god Angstrom is reading this because I really need to ask: When did I ever threaten physical harm on someone? I'm just a little confused here. I mean, yea, I got into it pretty good on the boards, but those are just words. Let me just reemphasize the BOARDS bit. I mean, that banishment log makes it sound like we would say to each other, "We don't like Serin today, lets send him tells non-stop and shout how much of a fag he is." And libel? Maybe you are thinking about the rumor, not started by us, of Malire being a chick? Funny thing is that I didn't really believe it for a while, but then my gf logged in and was asking Malire a few questions for me (after the move, when I couldn't log in, but before the banishment) and I swear to god, the log that she was posting back to me looked EXACTLY like two chicks chatting it up. And then there is Bunbun Wow, really miss Adinos huh? Lemme just point out for you that me and Frosty never really argued much with him, not like we did with Paldin. I can't even really remember any prolonged personal conversations with Adinos. I think he just used us as a convenient scapegoat for his departure. You could even tell he had a thing brewing for us back when he posted that survey. I'm gonna point out that the survey response that I sent him (which you can probably find somewhere on here (my views have changed a bit since then)) never made it to his posted results. But he did make carefully sure to include both mine and Arakis' names specifically from a response that details something that happens often in the Scythe by other players and was actually rather infrequently done by us. And heck, even though Angstrom bares some kind of grudge against me when I never really had a bad thing for him, I think we are better off with Angstrom in there. Someone fresh and not tired and worn out like Adinos was (You all enjoying those houses yet? I bet Bleys is ). Ok, now hopefully, I sty away for another few days and come back to another list of posts filled with lies of what me and Frosty supposedly did on the adv board. I joyously plead guilty to being an accomplished whiner though, and maybe an asshole. Afterall, that is what you become when someone else can't hold their own in an argument with you. I talked with Adinos a fair bit. He wasn't using it as an out. You just managed to completely strike a nerve, pretty much remove his motivation completely. I saw him go from go from motivated to apathetic. To paraphrase his farewell post, why the hell should he do anything when all he gets for it is lots of grief from you two every where he looks, and only maybe one or two notes on the praise board? You two are quite literally the reason he left. Yes, he was tired and worn out, because you two tired him and wore him out. Oh, and the houses? Adinos' section is done, and has been done for a while. It's another area (coded by somebody else) which is holding up the houses. But yeah, my main point on the Adv board is simply that you guys pissed off a lot of people, quite frequently, and that's why you were banned. You've pretty much admitted this yourself, so I guess I just really don't see where the controversy is...
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Post by Gromlakh on Apr 24, 2006 13:18:16 GMT
But yeah, my main point on the Adv board is simply that you guys pissed off a lot of people, quite frequently, and that's why you were banned. You've pretty much admitted this yourself, so I guess I just really don't see where the controversy is... Which just brings us back to the point that Musashi has loudly been hammering home. You don't siteban people because they're unpopular. Siteban for a pk spree, for bug abuse, things like that. But because someone likes to voice their opinion, those opinions are unpopular with the admin, and the admin can't seem to figure out how to properly use "earmuffs" and "squelch"? You've got to be kidding me. There are a ton of people on AA who have "pissed off a lot of people, quite frequently." Those people are still on AA today, and I would doubt that the admin is going to siteban them. You singled out the two people who were speaking their mind and calling for change. That's just flat out wrong. Maybe Frostie and Wolvie were unpopular. Maybe they were assholes. Maybe they won't be missed by the vast majority of the player base. 1.) That doesn't make it right to siteban them; and 2.) You're setting a bad precedent that makes people nervous to speak THEIR minds in the future. Everyone starts to wonder that, if they start saying things that puts them on the bad side of the admin, will they be the next to go?
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Post by Wolvie on Apr 24, 2006 16:14:54 GMT
Bunbun, lemme just share why noone ever bothered dealing with you. We flat out dismissed you because unlike other people where you might have a post or three of reasoned discussion before it devolved into a flat out flame war, you jump straight to it. Everything you are spouting is party-line vitriol that has developed in the admin because they couldn't counter back in any reasonable way to our arguments. They could only ever say, "We are in power, we give up our time, and you haven't done anything for the mud so shut up." A very unhealthy attitude that has spawned ours.
And back to Adinos: I recently just remembered I think the ONLY direct interaction I had with Adinos and the first time I began to feel that maybe it wasn't JUST Paldin turning things in a wrong direction. At one point, a suggestion was posted on the suggestion board that was a really charged one that had some very interesting effects to the mudplay if it would be implemented (Honestly, I forget what it was about right now since it has been maybe a few years, but Calvin might remember since he was also involved). So because of this, a discussion ensued on the board, that sometimes got a little heated because some people cannot argue the points and so head straight out to flaming. But there was some civil debate going on. Eventually, Adinos decides to go archaic and remove a bunch of posts. I think this was wrong and so I repost back, in a reasonable note, reiterating what points I had against such a suggestion. And he starts going off to me how there should be no discussion whatsoever on the suggestion board. The funny thing was, in the description of the suggestion board room, it mentions something about "this is a place where ideas can be suggested and discussed." I think Calvin might remember this episode because we both had the same idea of emailing Adinos the room description to let him know that he was being unreasonable.
Let me emphasize that I think at this point in time, I was still in a phase where I generally only blamed Paldin and his whacked out balance scheme to a starting decline in the mud. That altercation with Adinos started changing my mind.
And finally, I think a telling thing is that most people will not have much of an opinion either way because me and Frosty had very limited circles that we socialized in. I think the greater majority of players (new and old) tend to stay away from the boards that we frequented with our discussions. And other than the Idul episode, we didn't shout much. And with that Idul episode, we stopped when Paldin warned that had deemed we had gone overboard.
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BunBun
Newbie
Move it Nerd Boy
Posts: 6
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Post by BunBun on Apr 24, 2006 17:30:12 GMT
Which just brings us back to the point that Musashi has loudly been hammering home. You don't siteban people because they're unpopular. No, you siteban them for harassing people. tell dibbs demotions of harassment
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Post by Gromlakh on Apr 24, 2006 18:58:21 GMT
Which just brings us back to the point that Musashi has loudly been hammering home. You don't siteban people because they're unpopular. No, you siteban them for harassing people. tell dibbs demotions of harassment If only there were a way of putting on earmuffs to avoid hearing shouts. If only there were a way of squelching certain players' tells that you don't want to hear. If only there were a way for wizards to not be forced to read every single mudmail sent to them by players they don't want to hear from. If only there were a way for wizards to not be forced to read every single post on every message board and forced to respond to them. Oh wait, wizards can do ALL of those if they want to. My bad. And before the suggestion comes up that Wolvie and Frosty were annoying or harassing the general population, the general population of AA doesn't read most of the message boards. At most, their "Free AA from [Idul/Paldin/Stalin/Hitler/Whoever]" shouts may have been a mild irritation, but certainly nothing coming even close to Akapokas, Tylerdurden, Chucknorris, etc. Ban players for harassing other mortals? Maybe, if it's extensive enough and they've been warned about continued harassment of specific individuals. "Harassment" of wizards? I got news for you: you're in a position of power with decision-making authority. You will NEVER be able to please everyone, and you'll get criticized and/or harassed for every decision you make. If you can't deal with that, then you're in the wrong position. I have nothing personal against Adinos (hell, I don't even know him), but I dare say Malire has, over the course of the last billion years of being Arch of Law, has endured FAR more criticism and harassment than Adinos could ever dream of. And yet, Malire's still here. Is it perhaps because Malire has the thick skin and ability to ignore "harassment" against him that's required of the position?
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BunBun
Newbie
Move it Nerd Boy
Posts: 6
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Post by BunBun on Apr 24, 2006 19:19:20 GMT
Bunbun, lemme just share why noone ever bothered dealing with you. We flat out dismissed you because unlike other people where you might have a post or three of reasoned discussion before it devolved into a flat out flame war, you jump straight to it. Everything you are spouting is party-line vitriol that has developed in the admin because they couldn't counter back in any reasonable way to our arguments. What? Okay, yeah, clearly your calling people guild and whores and worthless is "reasonable". They got sick of your childish namecalling, they never bothered to respond because half the time you weren't even arguing, you were just insulting people. But it's okay... I'm not on your side, so CLEARLY I'm just some pawn of the administration's grand conspiracy to eliminate you, so none of my points have any validity. Really? I heard more complains that you were whining without providing any ideas most of the time than the fact that you were panning those in power. I remember you insulting a few of Adinos' projects on the boards because you didn't find them useful to yourself. Just because you didn't talk to him directly doesn't mean you weren't talking about his work. So, obviously, you go around insulting Adinos for percieved slights? See, this is why you were banned. Instead of talking to Adinos to see what exactly was happening, you went around insulting him. I remember you shouting about far more than Idul. I remember you shouting about Paldin on numerous occasions. I remember you calling Serin a fag in dozens of shouts. I remember every time you mentioned shifters you talked about how you didn't like them so clearly they were useless and should be removed. Again, you pissed off lots of people. You INTENTIONALLY pissed off lots of people. You've been doing it for years. Eventually, people complained, and they did something about it. I don't know who it was, but I know a few people who it wasn't... I know it wasn't Paldin, for one. He refused to complain about you to the Senate because that might give validity to your whining about him.
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Post by tehlung on Apr 24, 2006 19:33:06 GMT
I remember you calling Serin a fag in dozens of shouts. you mean he isn't?
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