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Post by IvanHood on Jun 1, 2003 21:18:24 GMT
I'll be lazy and just cut and paste my note on shifters board. I really wonder about how shifters bash ! Title: 'Shifters Bashing' // Ivanhood <19> Fri May 30 13:56:44 2003 Shifters are widely regarded as some of the worst bashers on aa. Why is that? Is it because most of the powerplayers, that tends to tweak classes for all their tricks doesn't have patience to play one, and the rest is happy to idle their way to 59? Or is it because the majority of shifters bashing are xaerre form 1-3 with club at about 40-60, and when someone FINALLY get to xaerre 5 and have a high club skill, they instantly start working a secondary or tertiary form? Why don't more shifters go out and play hardcore after maxing? Why don't more shifters go hit hard with a xaerre 5 to get tons of xp, so they can idle more relaxed with other forms ? I know the mentality of shifters are different, (heck, I like walking around with my tree shifter, doing so bad xp, it is a joke but just once in a while... or just once, I'd like to see a shifter played to the max. A sitenote, seems shifters CAN tank. Was it suleiman that about a year ago proved that drakon 5, was a pretty nice tank.
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Post by Litherium on Jun 1, 2003 21:25:31 GMT
Shifters bash quite well actually... specially in xaerre form. Let me know anytime you're tanking and Ill pull my sorry ass shifter out Treant is a great form for ogre killing btw.. entangle r0x0rs.
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Post by Machine on Jun 1, 2003 22:55:07 GMT
I agree, shapeshifters can possibly be really good bashers. Alot of shapeshifters claim to be able to outclaim fighters. But guess what. A fighter doesn't require a special ability to do damage. Grab a weapon, wield it, bash. Where as a shifter needs to use at least 1 claw attack per kill, in order to put up the same numbers. Then on top of that, they can't do eq as well, because they have to carry their own smokes and medicinals and they have lower strenght.
A mage can outdamage a fighter while bashing, too, by casting 4 acid arrows and wasting money, but they don't claim to be better bashers then a fighter, do they?
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Post by Peblo on Jun 2, 2003 10:25:57 GMT
suleiman tanked for me a couple of times (i bashed with supeth) and we pulled realy decent numbers... he used the same heals as a rogue, pots, kniggs, crutches and d**n i say d**n it was fun to watch stuff die
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Post by Litherium on Jun 3, 2003 3:16:03 GMT
It is important to note that Suleiman is a damn good player in other incarnations... As is Dukarbaun.. so the numbers they pulled tanking/bashing as a shifter aren't really reflective of the class as a whole. As with any class its the player behind the computer that makes the difference. Shifters have gotten a bad rap because very few people have figured out how to play them effectively. Funniest thing about the shifter class is a class for experienced players but only newbies seem to play em heh.
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Post by Peblo on Jun 3, 2003 8:18:42 GMT
please skip that it's the player behind the keyboard bs... we all know that... we talk about the class abilities etc... *growl* (i have waited long for someone to say that... and i HATE that statement *chuckle*)
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Post by killcrazy on Feb 29, 2004 22:36:18 GMT
Shifter bashers have come a long way. I'll go through the forms from the worst viable basher to the best.
Panther 5: Isn't that powerful, so it's odd to see it being used to much. It has multiple attacks, and pulling out three 'You mauled someguy's bodypart brutally' in one round is between 30-60 damage. To put that in perspective, a massacre does 30+. When you cast haste on a panther, it adds an extra two guaranteed attacks on the end, to a possible 3-5 attacks each round. It's certainly impressive to watch, but the panther's weapon skill is so low you'll have difficulty doing more than 12 damage or so per hit. In other words, you're only doing slightly more than fighter damage at most, you can't carry anything and you need to be bound constantly. Bite doesn't do much damage either.
Drakon 5: Is too powerful to be kept in a bashing role. It outclaims everything - panther 5, fighters, rangers with bows and big axes and gigantic wolves, I've even outclaimed smiting paladins on demonic kills before (but only a few times). But the damage you're doing, while vast, is almost all breath attack. Sp is drained very fast, and most tanks don't approve of you drinking their mentals. In a fast party you might pull out one breath attack per kill, which isn't enough to outperform much. Their weapon skill is slightly higher than panthers, but you still won't pass 20 damage per hit. Keep the drakons for tanking (which, by the way, they are incredible at).
Xaerre 5: Tres nice. Serin can outclaim me even while I tank with drakon 5. Claw attacks don't do as much damage as breath, but they're cheaper and the weapon damage is much nicer. If you can find a good xaerre basher with a high club skill, try them out.
Shifters also make the most relaxed 100k/hour solo I've ever experienced. It's almost like idling.
This note has gone on far too long. END COMMUNICATION.
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Post by IvanHood on Mar 1, 2004 1:16:48 GMT
Which world do you live in ?
I consider myself a tank way above avg, and I have tanked for so many different person/classes/races/buttsizes, its silly.
One thing that is sure though, is that EVERY SINGLE time I EVER tanked or bashed for a shifter, it always ended up badly. I have even several times asked around for maxed shifter bashers, to see if they were as bad as I thought. So far, I'll say they are.
Last I checked, even xp runs for shifters are so bad, that most on hoh list is BELOW avg for one of the better parties.
Straight of my head, I can't think of any class that does worse bashing than shifters. Or recall even one time where a shifter basher wasn't pissing me off.
And btw, I liked playing a shifter now and again, but they'll still be BAD bashers!
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Post by killcrazy on Mar 1, 2004 2:13:58 GMT
Every party I've been in has been surprised by how good shifter bashers are. Your parties are most likely a step up from usual parties, and not the sort of thing that works with a shifter mindset, but get an experienced player (not just an experienced shifter) with xaerre five and you can paint the world red.
As for the hall of heroes.. I agree that the runs on there aren't impressive. But they certainly could be. I make 100k an hour with a drakon easilly. So can others who have tried. But again, the shifter mindset is entirely against that sort of thing. I made my first proper attempt at an exp run a few days ago, and made 170k with no preparation. Not too bad for my first try, I thought. I went to check how I did: It got to third on the list. Considering that I'm an average player, there's a lot of potential for shifters to rock.
Send me (Gyn) a tell sometime if you haven't got rid of all your characters. I'll try not to disappoint you.
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Post by tehlung on Mar 1, 2004 5:16:49 GMT
the only way i could see allowing a shifter to bash would be xaerre 5 with 80+ club and a highly above average basher alt. i'd stick them on heals and binding tank, themselves, and whoever needs it. but still, the only way they'd get in is if the other two bashers are big bad fighters, maybe one a rogue or paladin, and both of them competant on eq.
sharn and i did a run and it got him on the hoh. is he still number one?
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Post by CalviN on Mar 1, 2004 16:01:45 GMT
*smile contentedly* Ahh... I love it when other people say what I was going to, so I don't have to waste my time. Thanks Lunger and Ivan...
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Post by Pillar on Mar 1, 2004 18:03:30 GMT
lunger, calvin lets my L4 chameleon tag. does that count for a "highly above average basher alt"?
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Post by angelou on Mar 30, 2004 20:44:21 GMT
How to Bash As a Shapeshifter Disclaimer: My Opinion Only Panther 5: You’re not doing impressive damage. If the party you’re looking to join is advanced grade, don’t join unless the tank is very familiar with you. Make sure you have your SP maintenance down because you're going to be using bite as often as possible without risking your form. Xaerre 5: If you have Club 60 or higher, you’re ready for the big time. Be mindful that most tanks are prejudice against you so, make sure you grab your medicinals and pipeweed at warp speed while the tank is getting purged or doing a sell run. It’s the proper way to do things anyway. You don’t have to do anything fancy. Just put the hurt on everything. Use claw once at the beginning, middle, and end of each worthy NPC. Nelitos 5: You’re not a basher. Drakon 5: You’re not a conventional basher. If I were tanking with you as a basher, we would actually dual tank. You’re awesome as a tank or dual tanking. So, get with someone who knows how to dual tank and your party will never slow down! Of course this works best with another Drakon 5, but any tank who understands dual tanking will be glad to have you around. Use your special attack at the beginning of the bout with each worthy NPC. Because of the cost, you don’t want to use it too close to the end of a fight. In the event that you make sure you’re doing things efficiently and you’re still not getting your due respect, bash for a Drakon 5 tank. Also, converse with a fellow shifter who actually plays the game. More shifters are spending time playing than ever before. Gyn and Oolatek are great examples of true solo artists. From them, you may want to watch and learn, then translate the positive into bashing techniques for yourself. Mine, Dorian Gray
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Post by IvanHood on May 24, 2004 22:24:14 GMT
Close to a year since I started this topic now!
Treant would be useless as bashers.
Of the billion xaerres I saw bashing, ALL was weak and notably slowed down the party. Can't recall having a xaerre 5 with big club to bash.... Or maybe one did, but just sucked as bad as smaller xaerres.
Drakon bashers is something I rarely saw. However, of what I have tried, it is actually pretty nice! Requires that the player pays some attention and stuff, but its something I'd like to have tested more.
And now I got 100 posts, I should have earned the right to be master of muh, instead of pastry!
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Post by Aurac on May 24, 2004 22:31:11 GMT
Like you said in your original post at the beginning of this thread, there just aren't enough really good players playing the class to really see how good it can be. A sucky player will suck at shifter as well as fighter, cleric, paladin, necro, etc. So you can't really base the shifter class on that.
This is why I've been trying to encourage Lunger, Calvin, and Machine to raise up some shifters and do some damage.
--Aurac
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